Returning a gun that was misrepresented as "old, new stock" and "PHENOMENAL" condition
Hey everyone. I've got an immediate question on shipping a gun back to a dealer:
I won an auction for a gun that was highly misrepresented by the selling FFL. They have sent me a return UPS label along with a copy of their Federal Firearms License and told me to box the gun and send it back to them by dropping it off at UPS.
Is that legal? I thought that a firearm being shipped by any common carrier had to be logged through an FFL on both ends. Please advise if sending this back to them via a box and label is above board.
Thank you!
PS: More on the misrepresentation will come later, but I'm on a deadline to return this within the seller's 3-day unfired inspection window...
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Shipping Firearms? Not on UPS You're Not!
Shipping firearms? Not using UPS your not. As of August 29, 2022 UPS not longer allows private individuals to ship firearms.In my opinion, your best bet is to take it to your local FFL and have them ship it. Bob
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BobJudy: 30415381901211/comments/30415335833371
https://thefirearmfirm.com/shipping-firearms-not-on-ups-your-not/
In my opinion, your best bet is to take it to your local FFL and have them ship it. Bob
Thank you Bob! Yeah, they sent me a label with my name and my FFL's name/address on the return portion of the label. I guess that is ok for shipment as long as I get my FFL to do the transfer (back to the seller) paperwork?
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Yep as long as like you stated his name on return label.
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Are you saying that the FFL dealer shipped the firearm to you directly, and did not ship the firearm to an FFL dealer that you were working through?
If you picked it up from and FFL dealer then it will have been logged in his books. If you want to send it back and you have a copy of the FFL dealer that sent it, send it back to the address on the copy of the license you have.
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waltermoe: 30415381901211/comments/30415340128795
Are you saying that the FFL dealer shipped the firearm to you directly, and did not ship the firearm to an FFL dealer that you were working through?
If you picked it up from and FFL dealer then it will have been logged in his books. If you want to send it back and you have a copy of the FFL dealer that sent it, send it back to the address on the copy of license you have.
No. This was a shipment for an auction won on GunBroker, but the gun was highly misrepresented. I am returning the gun to them; they sent me a UPS label via email to handle the shipping. They gave me no other instructions however. I started thinking about it, and began to think that I needed to run this back through my INBOUND (regular) FFL for the OUTBOUND shipment.
All of you fine folks are confirming that notion.
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One other thing:
The seller (the one I'm returning it to out of state) sent me a copy of their FFL for the shipment. With that, do I still need to go through my FFL for the transfer BACK to the seller for the return/refund?
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CapeFearElvis: 30415381901211/comments/30415381940251
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11368986#Comment_11368986
Thank you Bob! Yeah, they sent me a label with my name and my FFL's name/address on the return portion of the label. I guess that is ok for shipment as long as I get my FFL to do the transfer (back to the seller) paperwork?
There are some on here with much greater knowledge of the new UPS guidelines and perhaps they will chime in. UPS says they will not accept firearms packages from anyone unless they are licensed. Whether your FFL's info on the return label is enough to fulfill that requirement will probably be up to the clerk you get at the counter. If it was me, I'd pay a few bucks to have the FFL ship it just to be on the safe side. Bob
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If it is a rifle and you ship it usps, and have a copy of his FFL enclosed with the rifle, and have a copy of the FFL dealers license so they can verify the address on the package you can ship it your self. If it’s a hand gun you can not ship it usps unless your an FFL dealer. As of July I believe UPS will not ship any firearm unless your and FFL dealer.
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waltermoe: 30415381901211/comments/30415366251035
If it is a rifle and you ship it usps, and have a copy of his FFL enclosed with the rifle, and have a copy of the FFL dealers license so they can verify the address on the package you can ship it your self. If it’s a hand gun you can not ship it usps unless your an FFL dealer. As of July I believe UPS will not ship any firearm unless your and FFL dealer.
It's a pistol (Colt 1911). I think this is what I'm going to do:
I'm going to package the gun (less tape) so my FFL can get to the gun for the serial number, take it with the shipping label, pay his FFL transfer fee, and see if he won't let it go out with his regular UPS shipments. Either way, he's going to tell me what I can and can't do legally, and he's going to log the shipment in his books.
Thank you everyone for your insight!
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A tip; don't elaborate on the misrepresentation in the future here, it's not allowed.
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bullshot: 30415381901211/comments/30415352583579
A tip; don't elaborate on the misrepresentation in the future here, it's not allowed.
Seriously? We can't talk about getting the short end of the stick in a transaction, describing the gun that was received versus the one that was advertised? Of all places that I thought the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution might hold would be on a gun forum. Times have really changed.......
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Might want to go read that first amendment and then come back and tell us about the part where it applies to private businesses.
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CapeFearElvis: 30415381901211/comments/30415323744411
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11369019#Comment_11369019
Seriously? We can't talk about getting the short end of the stick in a transaction, describing the gun that was received versus the one that was advertised? Of all places that I thought the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution might hold would be on a gun forum. Times have really changed.......
Before a forum moderator chimes in I will direct you to the link about Forum guidelines;
@...: https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/1900038/the-forum-posting-guidelines-and-what-they-mean
Over in the Political Forum, there have been numerous rants insisting that every elected official read the US Constitution and certify in writing that they have done so. The Forum Posting Guidelines are the Gun Broker forum's constitution and when you join our forum you click a little box indicating that you have read those guidelines and agree to them. Those guidelines were here when I got here, and I imagine they'll be here long after I'm gone.
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95% of all judgements and rulings in the forum are based on those guidelines. The other 5% are based on just how irritating a specific member is (or was). Some took it to a level I had never thought was possible.
I do digress. Here are our Forum Guidelines:
GunBroker.com provides this forum to allow users to engage in open discussion regarding topics of interest to our community.
In general we expect everyone to act like adults and to show respect for each other, just as you would if the other parties were guests in your home. If you are looking for an unmoderated free-for-all you will not be at home here.
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Imagining that members would behave like adults was wishful thinking. The forum staff understands that in addition to being moderators, they're also acting as babysitters. More important is to understand that all of us are guests in this forum and we will follow GB's rules. There is no free speech in this forum. Everything said here is subject to edit, revision, or deletion at the whim of the staff. Finally; no buying, selling or trading is allowed in these forums.
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Those are the forum rules as I read them, and I administer the forum based on those rules.
Since this is a privately owned forum and not part of the government, the First Amendment does not apply. Simply put, their house, their rules. Badmouthing Gun Broker or any of it's sellers is strictly verboten in the forum.
After reading the forum rules, I hope you stick around. Bob
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That makes sense, but I wasn't intending to bad-mouth a seller; my feedback for the seller will speak for itself when the time comes. Instead, I was going to elaborate on what was advertised versus what was received.
Does a wide gap happen often on GB, the gap between what was advertised versus what was received? I'm relatively new to the site (about a year or less), but just started buying a few months back. In four pistol purchases, two have been better than expected condition-wise.
The most recent two pistols, two Colt Gold Cups were both disappointing, one so bad that I had to send it back, thus this post.
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Must have been bad photos?? Welcome to the forum, we can sure use some new blood around here.
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Ricci.Wright: 30415381901211/comments/30415366414235
Must have been bad photos?? Welcome to the forum, we can sure use some new blood around here.
Thank you; nice to be here.
The photos didn't show the barrel (inside or outside), underside of the slide, or the top of the frame, locations where the wear was significant. The gun had been fired repeatedly, likely without cleaning or any additional oil beyond what came from the factory. Since it was a 1991 year model, I believe that the original oil had long dried up, then the pistol was purchased, no new oil added, then had a few hundred rounds cycled through it.
When I received it, I couldn't get the slide to return to battery on its own because of the griding action of metal-to-metal in the action. So, I stripped it down. There were metal filings/shavings all over the place on the inside of the weapon, in the magazine, in the magazine well, in the top of the frame, on the underside of the slide and inside the barrel. I was surprised to see so much metal, and it was clear where it came from.
A few photos of the "old, new stock", "phenomenal" condition pistol are shown below
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That looks like stainless which will "gall" if not properly lubricated. I personally would never have sold that pistol in that condition.
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