Stupid electrician!
I just discovered the fool that wired this home used 14 AWG to run power to:
The microwave
The range (which is gas, but uses a small amount of electrical power)
Two outdoor receptacles
The interior garage lights
All three exterior light fixtures
and they are all on the same 15 amp circuit. The microwave that is installed here can draw 1600W or basically 13 amps all on its own.
Who does this?!
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"I have seven duplex receptacles in my kitchen. All on separate 20 amp breakers with 12 ga wire and 20 amp rated receptacles. Kitchen fires are a real danger if not wired correctly."
Seven receptacles, each on its own 20 amp breaker. And I assume each on a GFI?
Good God. That is triple what is mandated by the National Electric Code. Did you wire that, bpost?
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Brookwood: 29981862068891/comments/29981848641435
A house I once owned also had a fuse box. Built in 1950 and had 60 amp service before I upgraded everything. The scariest thing I found was a copper penny under one of the fuses!
"In God We Trust" is on pennies for just that reason!
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And then there was the auto bubba mechanic that used a 22 lr round for a old timey auto fuse.
I think he might now be short a full set of jewels.
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If it didn't trip the 15 amp breaker probably wasn't a big overload for 14 ga wire.
I'm not saying this was right or a good idea but unless you had experienced frequent breaker trips, you weren't in dangerous territory.
We're in the process of wiring the new shop building and Son is (IMHO) going way overboard with his wiring sizing. I've lived in a house wired like the typical 1950's skinflint fashion for over 40 years and just know to be conservative with power demands.
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Mobuck: 29981862068891/comments/29981863400603
If it didn't trip the 15 amp breaker probably wasn't a big overload for 14 ga wire.
I'm not saying this was right or a good idea but unless you had experienced frequent breaker trips, you weren't in dangerous territory.
We're in the process of wiring the new shop building and Son is (IMHO) going way overboard with his wiring sizing. I've lived in a house wired like the typical 1950's skinflint fashion for over 40 years and just know to be conservative with power demands.
It was frequently tripping the breaker.
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"It was frequently tripping the breaker."
OK now that's a problem that requires attention.
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Mr. Perfect: 29981862068891/comments/29981854883867
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11424410#Comment_11424410
It was frequently tripping the breaker.
A clamp-on ammeter may help determining what's going on.....and when.
Years ago I had problems with a dieing GFI breaker.
Dang women......and their hairdryers!! There's a reason they're limited to 1850 watts.😖
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I bought a 90 year old single story farm house for my son back in 2013. It basically was in good shape and he spend a lot of his time and my money to make great interior improvements. The fuse box had upgraded to a modern breaker box and the knob & tube been replaced but unfortunately with 2 wire cable. I worked with a guy that was the company electrician and he installed all new gfi (?) type breakers and receptacles that accept 3 prong plugs. Those breakers were a lot more than regular breakers but the cost of rewiring the whole house would been terrible. I asked others about that fix and was told that I'm OK.
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That's pretty harsh decon12. Sure, he did some unusual wiring but above all you can bet he was woke.
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GFI breakers/outlets have their place but are a PITA for general use. After a while, they acquire a mind of their own and trip w/o any real cause.
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I was doing remodeling work in Atlanta. I was working inside repairing some cabinets, while Jose and Roberto were outside, pressure washing the house. The lady of the house came to me and said that her receptacle next to the bathroom sink had tripped.
I went to the panel box, I inspected the other bathroom. The power in the other bathroom was also out. I had to play Sherlock Holmes, House Detective. I finally figured out that the builder of this house, a fine, new $700K 2 story house in Alpharetta, the builder had wired up both bathrooms, as well as 3 exterior receptacles, on the same circuit. One exterior receptacle was right next to the front door. When Jose pressure washed the wall, he also hosed down the receptacle, the GFI popped and knocked out power to the bathrooms.
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GFI's are bad enough, ARC faults are a breed of their own.
All the safety gadgets are for own good but go back and see who lobbied the Dept of Ins to mandate them.
Company that makes them every time. I have sat in on a few building code meetings.
Wiring, code official will turn down some devices if the have too big of a wire.
Something to do with not overheating. Heat will trip the breaker before device burst into flame.
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Code is for sissies. Don
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No codes or inspections where I live for electrical, but I built for what "was" or above the national code for the USA when I built... and yes, both GFCI and AFCI are a pain but I tried my best to use them where the code said I should... since then it has gotten worse as far as costs are concerned and I'm finding out that my 14 year old house is not up to the current code as I'm in process of researching what I need to do for a new build on my property...
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What's the problem with GFIs? I have five of them in my house, they are 25 years old. Never had a problem, except one time, had a lightning strike on the house and it blew the GFI in the bathroom. Fried it, I had to replace it.
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The AFGFCI are the worstest ever! The early ones you couldn't even plug a vacuum into 'cause the motor would cause them to trip. With the new brushless motors they do OK but any type of motor with brushes are impossible.
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NeoBlackdog: 29981862068891/comments/29981897103131
The AFGFCI are the worstest ever! The early ones you couldn't even plug a vacuum into 'cause the motor would cause them to trip. With the new brushless motors they do OK but any type of motor with brushes are impossible.
It's true. Many brush motors are not going to work well on an arc fault protected circuit. They produce arcs by design. Worse are the AC motors that leak a small amount of current to the ground due to improper shielding. I have a brand new air conditioning unit with built in GFCI in its plug. The protection in the plug accounts for a small leakage current, but on the GFCI protected circuit I've tried to plug it into, no dice because it detects that small leak and trips.
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Mr. Perfect: 29981862068891/comments/29981863900827
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11424708#Comment_11424708
It's true. Many brush motors are not going to work well on an arc fault protected circuit. They produce arcs by design. Worse are the AC motors that leak a small amount of current to the ground due to improper shielding. I have a brand new air conditioning unit with built in GFCI in its plug. The protection in the plug accounts for a small leakage current, but on the GFCI protected circuit I've tried to plug it into, no dice because it detects that small leak and trips.
But doesn't it just give you a warm fuzzy feeling knowing there's a bureaucrat out there somewhere that has your safety and well being at the forefront of his mind?
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NeoBlackdog: 29981862068891/comments/29981897149339
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11424713#Comment_11424713
But doesn't it just give you a warm fuzzy feeling knowing there's a bureaucrat out there somewhere that has your safety and well being at the forefront of his mind?
It's my contention society is continually made weaker by continually erecting societal padding.
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My electrician advised me GFI - Yes
Arc fault - NO not til they get the bugs worked out. They cause more problems than they solve.
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Who does this?! As stated in your post "a stupid electrician" add to that a stupid electrical inspector. I was an electrician in the Navy and that issue is electric 101 that I learned in Trade school.
Code requires that new kitchen circuits must be #12 wire.
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montanajoe: 29981862068891/comments/29981897202587
My electrician advised me GFI - Yes
Arc fault - NO not til they get the bugs worked out. They cause more problems than they solve.
AFCI breakers are no longer required in Michigan in 1 and/or 2 family home construction and haven't been for a while. Maybe that'll change in the next code cycle but right now they're seen as too quirky.
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SW0320: 29981862068891/comments/29981897238171
Who does this?! As stated in your post "a stupid electrician" add to that a stupid electrical inspector. I was an electrician in the Navy and that issue is electric 101 that I learned in Trade school.
Code requires that new kitchen circuits must be #12 wire.
All of the kitchen receptacles are on a separate circuit which is 12 AWG. The only one is the microwave and I'm not sure why it is the way it is. This is rural Idaho so that may have something to do with it.
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dcon12: 29981862068891/comments/29981849229339
Code is for sissies. Don
"Breakers! We don't need no stinking breakers!"
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